Horary Astrology: Does he only see me as a friend?
The following guest post is by horary astrologer Christine N. Davis.
Dear Christine,
Argh. I have a friend who I admire and respect in so many ways, and I've had a killer crush on him for about six months now. He's been very kind and helpful during a challenging time, but he has now started seeing someone else, despite me thinking I gave him enough openings to let me know if he reciprocates. I'm tortured by the thought that maybe I wasn't direct enough! Was my radar way off and he only regards me as a friend, or do I just need to knuckle under and be patient?
S. says someday he'll come around
Dear S.,
No word scratches the throat so painfully as the one we "should have said." We think, if only I hadn't kept silent (or, if only I hadn't said that *quite* that way). But even when you're mentally replaying the video of what he did and what you did and what you wish you'd done, sometimes it helps to know that it wasn't "meant to be" any other way than the way it is.
What I've done to get a read on your situation is cast a horary chart. This is a snapshot of the planets at the moment I understood what you wanted to know. Your birth chart can tell you what kinds of guys you attract in general; a horary chart will show you what's up with the specific guy you've got your heart caught on right now.
Three (yeah, three!) planets stand for you in the chart I cast: Mercury for your head, Moon for your heart, and Venus for your mojo. Your friend is represented by Jupiter and the Sun. (Note to astro students: if you read this question and thought, "He's her friend, he gets the 11th house," think again. He may be a friend now, but she wants to know if he'll ever be a lover. So look to the 7th house of relationships for information about him.)
Your three planets tell your side of the story clearly. Two of them, your head and your mojo, are in the sign Pisces. In this old-school astrology, Pisces is ruled by Jupiter. So you're quite thoroughly smitten by Jupiter, that is, your guy friend. Both of these planets are straddling the 11th house cusp. They're completely focused on the friendship. And I believe you when you say you're tortured by your thoughts about not having been direct enough. Pisces is said to be a "mute" sign according to classical astrology. (Fish don't talk, see.) And what's bothering you is that you were mute -- you failed to speak up in time.
Your third planet -- your heart -- is the Moon, which recently entered the sign Capricorn. Moon in this sign placement is in its own detriment (it's hurting badly) and in Jupiter's fall (it loathes your guy friend). That's natural. Until recently, the Moon was in Jupiter's other sign, Sagittarius. You thought you had a chance with him, and now you're realizing maybe you don't. You're feeling rejected, like you just got stomped by Cupid's big muddy boot.
As for him, I'm sorry to say this, but his priorities definitely look to be elsewhere. Not much could match your planets' involvement in the situation, and for a friend, his planets aren't trying that hard to catch up. Jupiter is in what's known as the triplicity of Venus, which shows a decent amount of interest but doesn't reciprocate your feelings to the same degree. Jupiter is also very uncomfortable around the Moon, your heart, for some reason. As for the Sun, his mojo, it is all about getting some attention from this new person right now and stroking his own manly ego. If you're in the picture, it's as a mix of some attraction with a lot of "no, don't go there" -- as if he just can't see you as anything but a friend.
But could he change? It's like this: I think change is coming to him, but I don't think it has anything to do with you. I don't see his attitude toward you changing, at least not within the scope of this chart. Anything can happen and anyone can change ... but, as some say, only after they have suffered enough. (Uh, oh. Don't go getting any ideas from that.)
S., thanks for your question. I wish the prognosis looked better, but maybe this will put your mind at ease that nothing you might have said would have altered the outcome. This too shall pass, though it's frustrating now. I hope many good things -- and good guys -- come along soon to take your mind off the one that got away.
- Christine
About the Author
Christine N. Davis (askchristine.wordpress.com) offers traditional horary astrology readings. Her writing has appeared in The Mountain Astrologer. For private consultations, visit her website at www.askchristine.info. If you would like Christine to consider your question about relationships for Seduction Central, email her at seduction@askchristine.info.
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posted by Jeffrey Kishner at 4/03/2008
11 Comments:
I'm wondering... why is the Moon uncomfortable around Jupiter in this specific position? Aren't they both in Capricorn, which seems a good sign to me? What about the seventh house, by the way... if the Sun would have been in the 7th house in Aries, would that have been good then? Do you look to the ruler of the 7th house too when you do this analysis?
Actually, I wrote that Jupiter is uncomfortable around the Moon. Capricorn is the sign of the Moon's detriment and Jupiter's fall: not a place either of them loves to be. But there they are. So they look at each other & say, ugh.
Would Sun in the 7th in Aries have been good? It would have been a different chart, certainly, and probably would have produced a different response. But the Sun wasn't in the 7th. We use the chart we have.
I do indeed look to the ruler of the 7th. That's Jupiter in this chart, and it represents the guy in question.
Right, doink, thanks for pointing that out, sometimes I read things too sloppily. And I totally overlooked Jupiter ruling Saggitarius.
Thanks for explaining that about the Moon and Jupiter...
Why do you add the Sun to representing him again (along with Jupiter)?
This reading was so helpful to me and it is really consistent with tarot readings I've had over the past 6 mos., too. Thanks. As a study in horary astrology it was informative to me as well!
About the Moon and Jupiter interaction, the part about neither planet being comfortable in its sign rings true. This guy is a loyal, reliable friend-- the guy who should have "lifeboat" written on his forehead-- and I've been desperate to cry on his shoulder and be comforted by him. Me being vulnerable is not my favorite role. Natal Sun Sag, Moon Leo (in 8th, along with Sat Leo), with Mars in Sag on the Asc and Pluto conj MC. Ven in Aqu rounds out the picture nicely.
And he, on the other hand, has been working hard to change a lot of old, unhealthy habits lately, esp. on the relationship front. When he told me recently about how he's trying to "do the new relationship the right way," which includes not indulging in PDA with his gf, I raised my eyebrows and said, "Is there only one right way?" (inwardly thinking, "You're a giant teddy bear. How can you not hug your woman in public??") He replied, "Well, I've done all the wrong ways already!" He is quitting smoking, quitting drinking, quitting everything all at the same time, and mentioned in Dec. that he was tired of one-night-stands and "dumb girls", and wanted more serious relationships. So I know the interpretation of him going through self-directed change is spot on. His natal Sun in Cancer and Sag Moon have been like catnip to me, but I've been feeling unsure of whether I could handle getting what I think I want anyway. As they say, beware of what you ask for...
Well said about not focusing on the potential for change "when one has suffered enough"-- the Piscean Venus and Merc certainly know how to pine away in unrequited love! Thanks again!
@Maudy and anyone wondering: this is a quirk of man/woman relationship horary charts ONLY. Querent gets ruler of 1st, Moon, and Venus (if female) or Sun (if male); beloved gets ruler of 7th and Sun (if male) or Venus (if female). The exception is if one of those 3 is already acting as ruler of 1st or ruler of 7th.
@Anonymous: I am so pleased you got so much out of the reading. Thank you again for asking and for this feedback!
Ms.Davis, thnak you for all this information and for the questions you've answered so far.
I'm becoming interested in horary astrology.I have to say this is one branch of astrology I know almost nothing about--and still don't really.;-)
I understand what you're doing, mind you, I meant I don't quite get how to do it myself.
But anyway--I'm wondering, not arguing, mind you, but
wondering if the question by the person who is (was?) interested romantically in her friend, and asked you for an answer about his possible interest in her: was the Horary chart show you only where he and she are at *now* (just friends, and he has become recently very interested in another woman he's seeing) or, does it truly answer her question that he wouldn't be likely to reciprocate even if she showed her interest in him outwardly now?
I'm asking because it seemed to me that he didn't *know* his friend was interested in him..and perhaps it's true he would not have been able to get involved with her even if she had told him already.
But I'm wondering if the chart showed in the way it did only because, at the moment the question was asked, he was 'not looking her way' so to speak.
Or is it that since you chose the 7th Hs for him *as if* he was her lover now, it shows the truth for them if lovers?
I thought of that--except we stil don't know unless and until she would show him she's interested romantically.
I do get that you said probably nothing she did would have made a difference anyway--but exactly how do we discern that?
And question 2--I understand Jupiter rules Pisces, (and only Jupiter centuries ago), but Neptune as co-ruler wouldn't be considerd, too, *now*?
Thank you in advance for any answers you may give me.:-)
Proserpine
++ Ms.Davis, thnak you for all this information and for the questions you've answered so far.
>> Ms. Karen/Proserpine, you're most welcome! Please call me Christine. Email me at seduction@askchristine.info if you have more questions after reading this insanely long comment.
++ Does the Horary chart show you only where he and she are at *now* or, does it truly answer her question that he wouldn't be likely to reciprocate even if she showed her interest in him outwardly now?
>> It shows both. The horary chart is a snapshot of time. It's a single frame of the movie, at a single location. It can show diagnosis and prognosis; current state and future direction. It all depends on what is asked.
This chart tells me where he and she are at now by showing me what the planets are doing now. Also, by looking at where each person's significators are going in the sky and how they relate to one another, it shows me if the guy's attitude will be changing or staying the same. It shows me if he's going to start liking her more, or in a different way, or not at all.
++ I'm wondering if the chart showed in the way it did only because, at the moment the question was asked, he was 'not looking her way' so to speak.
>> The chart is uniquely linked to the question. It shows what is true of the situation as it is.
++ Or is it that since you chose the 7th Hs for him *as if* he was her lover now, it shows the truth for them if lovers?
>> If she were just asking "Will my friend like the gift I bought him?" or something, we'd use the 11th house. But she wants to know, "Is this person relationship material and does he like me that way?" So we have to use the 7th.
++ I thought of that--except we stil don't know unless and until she would show him she's interested romantically.
>> This chart doesn't show, "He really likes you so you'd better speak up." It doesn't even show, "He really liked you until recently and now he's given up." In horary astrology, it is actually possible to figure out either of those answers... or the actual one, which was, "He doesn't reciprocate your feelings."
++ I do get that you said probably nothing she did would have made a difference anyway--but exactly how do we discern that?
>> We discern that by consulting a table of Ptolemaic dignities. It shows the essential dignity of each planet in the chart: its strength or weakness. It also shows how each planet likes or dislikes the other planets. This concept is completely foreign to most modern astrologers, but without it, my work would be impossible. I recommend John Frawley's book The Horary Textbook for its excellent explanation of how it works.
++ And question 2--I understand Jupiter rules Pisces, (and only Jupiter centuries ago), but Neptune as co-ruler wouldn't be considerd, too, *now*?
>> Right. Leave Neptune out of it. In this system, it does not play the role that modern astrologers have attributed to it.
++ Thank you in advance for any answers you may give me.:-)
>> Thank you for taking the time to comment!
Here's a general question about horary: is the "horary moment" when the querent asks the question via phone, e-mail, IM, snail mail, or is it the moment when the astrologer first reads the question? Thanks.
@anonymous - great question. The horary astrologer casts the chart for the time & place where SHE is at the moment SHE understands the question. Always. No matter what time the querent decided to ask.
Acting as my own astrologer, I cast my own charts for the moment when I finally say, aha, maybe a chart would answer this. Even if I've been thinking about the issue for days. There's always that moment where I realize astrology might help.
If someone says, "I cast a horary chart for my own but I'm stuck in my analysis," I use the chart they cast.
hi im intersted in my guy mate i want us to be more than mates his star sign is aquarious im a leo... is this a good match
@diva08, leo and aquarius are opposites. They attract. One is warm and the other can be cold or detached. They fascinate each other but may also irritate each other.
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