When who you end up with isn't your "type"
We all have a "type," an idealized image of a man or woman. This attraction matches an archetypal pattern within ourselves, corresponding with Venus or Mars. Yet, often who we end up with more closely matches the Moon or Sun in our charts. I like to think of these four planets as symbolic of the four people cards of each suit in the Tarot. Venus is the princess or page, Mars is the prince or knight, the Moon is the queen, and the Sun is the king. When we are young, we are drawn to the princess and prince archetypes, but as we age, we ultimately settle down with the queen or king. Astrologically, a straight woman may fall for Mars but end up with her Sun, while a straight man may fall for Venus but end up with his Moon. (Many articles about the astrology of same-sex love can be found at astroqueer. I'm assuming if you're a gay man you'd look at Mars and the Sun, and Venus/Moon if you're a lesbian, but some would argue that many of the asteroid goddesses are relevant for the latter.)
In the comments section of Do you love your man for your Venus, BalancedSag writes
I definitely get really close and bonded with a venus/talking/communicating type of guy, and then end up with a mars/masculine type somehow instead EVERY TIME.... Maybe its that I am a fire sign and the masculine type of guy (cave man) moves that fire in me more. It is not always worth it though. The water in me (scorpio) ends up feeling soooo neglected (like right now, for example!!).Even though she feels close to Mars in Scorpio (a feminine polarity Water sign), she ends up with her Sun in Sagittarius (a masculine polarity Fire sign).
A Personal Example
I have Pluto opposite Venus in Pisces. I've had a pattern of being consumed with wispy, willowy artist/poet/dancer types, yet the woman I've ultimately chosen to be with has a chart congruent with my Sixth House unaspected Moon in Aquarius. She's smart, independent and unconventional (Sun square Uranus, the modern ruler of Aquarius) and very focused on health and order/organization (Venus in Virgo, several Sixth House planets).
You're Not My Type
When you automatically refuse someone's advances because he doesn't fit the image of who you want, which part of your chart is talking? And how do you even know who's good for you? Maybe being with your Moon or Sun scares you, and you'd rather be with Venus or Mars. One reason for this fear may be that the Sun and Moon are the archetypes of the father and mother. Does a guy really want a girl just like the girl who married dear old Dad? It is actually all too easy to choose someone similar to a parent because your mother or father forms the template by which you understand and judge adults of the gender to whom you are attracted.Of course, different planets express their needs depending on your life priorities. If your biological clock is ticking, you're coming from your Moon, and looking more for a Sun than a Mars. If you're looking for adventure and excitement, you may be looking for Mars instead of a Sun. Likewise, a guy may search for the Moon when he wants to settle down and start a family, after he has sowed his wild oats with multiple Venuses. (Or he just stays with his wife and cheats on her with a younger woman.)
These are grand generalizations, and the astrology of desire and mating is more complex than outlined above. But I'd love to hear thoughts!
Comment below: If you're a woman, what are your Mars and Sun signs, what kind of guy are you attracted to, and what decade of life are you in? And if you're a guy, what are your Venus and Moon signs?
First photo by brokenchopstick, second by Dianna Williams under CC license.
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posted by Jeffrey Kishner at 1/04/2008
32 Comments:
First thing -- I'm interested in knowing how Descendant fits into this equation.
"a straight woman may fall for Mars but end up with her Sun, while a straight man may fall for Venus but end up with his Moon"
I will be sure to quote this at the next cocktail party. But I will wait until everyone is drunk enough to take it without writing me off as some weirdo.
This statement may be so true in many respects, but you might as well be yabbering in Yiddish in regular social circles because it just sounds SO odd. Speak your truth and they think you're a fruitcake or permanently out to lunch.
You have to stick with those who speak your language to be understood. We often feel misunderstood, probably because there are so few who speak our language.
And I'm not just talking astrology.
Sun in Cap and Mars In Aquarius. My "type":
-Is usually about 5 years older or more either really smart or an idiot savant with cute 1950's throwback glasses.
-Could play any instument, but chooses to serenade me with an accordian!
-Will join me to build a fort in the living room and watch the Sci-Fi channel. Also create a graphic novel about the future with me.
-Knows how much he gives to charity every month.
That was a mash up of all my ex bf's. I'm in my 20's. I believe I married my mars; my husband is a scientist who currently works at NASA and some of our first date discussions were about how awesome it would be if he went to mars (Scorpio Sun/Venus in Libra). Our first Valentines day we had astronaut meals! I'm laughing so hard right now. It was so fun!! :0)
Man, great post...also Victoria, great response!!
@The Usual Unsuspect, the above post is not proposing an equation, just a simplification. I would also look at the sign on the cusp of the 7th and the sign that the traditional ruler of the 7th is in. For example, I have Pisces on my Descendant, and my natal Jupiter is in Scorpio, which is my wife's Sun sign. But I just like theories that work for me ;)
So the Usual Unsuspect should look for a mate who is either a Virgo or with many Virgo attributes, and I should look for a man who is an Aquarius or with many Aquarian attributes.
I really don't feel that keen on Aquarius. Simply because they remind me of the Mark of the Beast for some reason ;)
But then that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger . . .
hmmm, Jeffrey isn't Neptune the traditional ruler of Pisces, not Jupiter?
Neptune is the modern ruler of Pisces. In the large scheme of things, Neptune was only recently discovered, whereas Jupiter has been observed in the sky for thousands of years.
I have Sun in Libra & Mars in Scorpio (on the ASC). I married an Aries Sun/Moon/ASC when i was in my 40's (first marriage for me, second for him). He's dark haired & intense and when I met him, he was farming (Taurus occupation . . .) When I was in my twenties I dated a string of Taurus Sun guys. My father is a Cancer Sun & i grew up on the family farm. I am a artistic/creative type and an astrologer - my husband is none of those. Go figure . . . :-)
Ok Jeffrey, this sounds like fun!
Me: Sag sun, Pisces moon, Scorp Rising, Libra Mars
My Angel: Pisces sun, Cancer Moon, Leo Rising, Aquarius Venus
We are beyond gaga for each other, and have withered a tumultuous first year. We first announced our love for each other back in February after knowing each other a week, then we basically exploded like a supernova, and now we are back like superglue, and this time it has that "Ok, we are in love. Let's just make it work then" feel to it. (back together since September, though we never stopped talking :) (It's not that evil liar guy who threatened suicide)
We also BOTH have Saturn and Pluto in Scorpio, Uranus in Sagittarius, True Node in Gemini, and Chiron in Taurus (though I don't know what the last two mean)
That is a LOT of information. I would say, on every level, he is TOTALLY my type. He is the type of guy I always secretly wanted when I was younger, but didn't have the patience or maturity for. Now, he is the only type of guy I have the patience and maturity for. He's an artsy, genius, determined, magically self-motivated, dominant, softhearted, loyal, archangel. Oh....he's cute too.
I just noticed this interesting bit too:
My Venus: Scorpio
Mis Mars: Scorpio
His Venus: Aquarius
My Mars: Libra
....so, did it help your theory?
Hey everyone! I have Sun in Capricorn, Moon in Leo and Venus and mars in Pisces. Plus, Gemini ascendent...
I've heard Acquarians and Cappies are not compatible, but what if their moon were in Taurus and Venus in pisces, Mars in Virgo?
Thanks for any info!! Oh! I'm a capricorn woman btw ;)
@Neith, as you know, you have Taurus on your Descendant or Seventh House cusp. I'm sure you've thought about this more than I have, but I wonder if the connection with a triple Aries is a combination of attraction to your Sun sign opposite plus a prominent Mars which rules Aries. Your 7th house ruler, Venus in Sag, likely trines at least one of his three major points (Sun, Moon, ASC), and falls in the Taurus-associated 2nd House if you use the Equal House system (which I don't!).
and I should look for a man who is an Aquarius or with many Aquarian attributes.
With a Scorpio sun and a Leo Mars? Huh-uh. After staring at your chart for ten minutes, I'd say Aquarius would be the worst air sign choice. A late or early Sag with a Cancer, early Taurus, late Libra or Cap moon. Or a late Leo sun with one of those moons.
And as soon as I think of the combo, I think of someone who fits, as usual.
....so, did it help your theory?
Ya know, you can have sun/moon sign crossover matches AND have Mars/Venus connections. In fact that helps; it helps so much, it's almost mandatory.
max
['Almost.']
Should I refuse a guy who has his Venus on my Sun, just in case I'm just "one of his multiple Venuses"?;)
i have Gemini(sun) and Capricorn(mars) and 21 years. i think i am attracted to a harmonious blend of both. my sun is opposite saturn after all, it is as if my sun doesnt shine at all and is chart ruler only in name, being eclipsed by the Father.
i suppose i am attractedto: ‘foreign descent’, mediterraneans in particular, an accent, someone who is mature, competent, professional, worldly, having a charm and naturally lively mind and athleticness, intellectual in a street smarts sense, either serious or fiery dynamic, not a struggler or an arrivist but already somewhere no problem. how clinical, but really this is an impressionistic gist, a quality. i see it going tres bien with the above gemini/capricorn - this perhaps graying, sobered and chiced up Mercury – i mean im not sure about the international bit but something has to be random chance n’est-ce pas!!
also perhaps more importantly i should add in reality my type seems to be someone who is out of my league or somehow unavailable, quel shock!, and apparently this may be more saturn blá blá blá. lolahhh. i have never been into anyone who was the commitment seeking type thou, and nor am i so i guess what can a lady expect when she ends up with nul but pissed, frustration and obsession and nothing to do but criticize and cry.
at last, capricorn mars and saturn ruled chart cant settle for second best pas-mon-numero-un, that is a misery worse than solitude, we got our eye on the prize or as lil kim said i got my eye on the guy in the woolrich coat. take the good with the even better, with the marvelous with the fabulous.
@Anon, I would not suggest you refuse a guy whose Venus conjoins your Sun. I mean, he likes you, right? It doesn't mean he's gonna be unfaithful.
@max, I agree that it helps to have both Sun/Moon and Venus/Mars connections in synastry. I'm simply talking about a more archetypal experience of attraction. I don't take it literally that if you're attracted to someone who embodies your Moon that she has to have her Sun in your Moon sign.
So...yeah...I just became truly acquainted with his Mars in Scorpio, and OMG wow. Just about the only one to knock a Venus in Scorpio/Scorpio Rising lady right outa her wits is this combo. Very nice.
The sun/moon combo with Pisces turns EVERYTHING sacred, in case anyone was wondering. We could be throwing dirt at each other, and it would be somehow spiritual.
Thank you Max! As usual your Sun/Neptune intuitions are correct . . . as Aquarians amuse me but puzzle me to no end. Cliffhangers they are, just too cool for comfort ;)
And what Jeffrey says about good things coming from a man's Venus on your Sun-- oh yes! You can't do anything wrong in their eyes, this man will like everything you do even when you're bad. He just likes your Sun, plain and simple!
Regarding infidelity, well, he could like someone's else's Sun just as much (or Mars, or Venus . . .) There are no guarantees but hey, if he likes me that much, I'm willing to compromise ;)
"We could be throwing dirt at each other, and it would be somehow spiritual"
I'll have what Sagilarious is having! Gotta get me some . . .
archetype sharktype
But I just like theories that work for me ;)
Jeffrey, I'm very familiar with this type of "astrological Machiavellism". It's very healthy ;)
Seriously though, I didn't mean the practice of chart interpretation, but rather theoretical/psychological side. I read many theories about what exactly Descendant stands for, but I'm curious what's your stance.
Victoria, yes, I have Sun in Virgo, but the ruler of my Descendant is in Scorpio. With Pluto conjunction. Freaking Scorpio Central ;)
HBH
my mars is in Aquarius- so I tend to go for the unconventional and my sun is in Virgo so Smart is were it's at- so I usually end up with cute hip geeks. thnik Steven Colbert, that cute James Mcavoy, that ryan buell from the Paranormal A&E show. But they are boyish. and boys are fun to play with but I've alsways wanted a "true Love" before.but lately it's strange the guys I keep crushing on from movie and TV are Manly men. your Clive Owen, Kevin McKidd, Daniel Craig, Jesen from "Supernatural"- a little badass a little 5 o'clock shadow. And I've never gone for that but maybe I need a little "wham bam thank you Mame" Where does one meet actual "Men" though???
Nearly all my "loves" have been outsiders in some respect; sometimes by nationality and sometimes by personal oddity. Independence, not necessarily of the flamboyant kind, really catches my eye. And I can't date stupid people, or people who are not curious about the world in some way.
I am a woman with a Scorpio Sun, Leo Moon, Capricorn Mars. I have an overloaded third house so my best guess is that I want a lover I can learn things from (you know, in case we break up, it's not a total waste of my time).
I'm simply talking about a more archetypal experience of attraction. I don't take it literally that if you're attracted to someone who embodies your Moon that she has to have her Sun in your Moon sign.
I'm sure you were; everyone else seemed to be going literal with it, so I dealt with it literally.
max
['Woot.']
Unusual Suspect, you're right, I get my tails mixed up on those M's sometimes ;)
Left side of Libra, tail-in
Right side of Libra, tail-out
Saturn in Scorpio conjunct Pluto for a potential lover? He sounds seriously dangerous! YUM
And Max, do you know someone I should know?
Hey Anonymous last, do get yourself a name and come join the Forum. It's a blast in here! Ask away, someone is bound to answer . . . I need to go to sleep now
@max, but did you know I wasn't being literal?
life is a dog's breakfast with too many dry bones (to break your teeth on)
crunch crunch
@whatever, if you are who I think you are, please tread carefully.
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